BREADBOX - Retro Computer Simulator WIP

C64 website updates, new releases of games, demos, tools etc.

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Bitfall
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BREADBOX - Retro Computer Simulator WIP

Post by Bitfall »

Hello to everybody and thank you all for valuable information I have found on this site during the years.

I'm very happy to announce a new type of product in development.

--- update ---

Now available to pre-order in Indiegogo
https://igg.me/at/breadbox

---------------


I know there is too much info in here, so feel free to skip to the end, where the YouTube links are.

Breadbox is a simulator that aims to simulate a LOT of retro computers, not only Commodore brand. But when running a bigger project like this with limited resources you have to start with something small, don't ya? Our approach is to build the simulator model by model, starting with C64 and PET-2001.

When something new pops up, you often ask yourself a questions, like, for example - why would I need this?
Well, I'm no salesman and I don't try to sell anything, but I can give you insight, clarification and vision of the project, incase you find this interesting enough.


Here's some more information, in a form of FAQ
-------------------------------------------------------------

"Why simulator?"

Well.. why not! It's fun to do it!

Also, there are no 'good' simulator - or no simulator at all about retro computers, are there?
Surely these wonderful machines deserve one!

"I already have a real C64, why would I need this?"

You are absolutely right, perhaps you don't need this. But there are also a lot of people that don't have a real C64 or it's broken, can't afford it, don't have the space for another retro computer, etc.

Lets also think in a larger scale, Do you have a PET-2001? or is there some other models you don't have? Would you like to try it and experience visually how it is used, how it works, play with it, code with it, hear it? How about all the other retro computer models ever existed? Would you fancy to have them in your collection and to be able to experience them in a highly detailed simulation?

"I'm happy with existing emulators, why would I need simulator?"

I'm quite happy with them also, and I'm happy for you too. It's likely that you don't need the simulator. Simulator is a different approach compared to emulator, if you prefer emulators or it provides functionalities you need/prefer, you should definitely use emulator. But if you like to use the 'emulated' computer in more natural way, you may want to give it a try.

"Stupid idea! Even building a single emulator to run reliably and accurately takes a huge amount of time and resources, it's impossible to build a fully working multi machine simulator having accuracy I want!"

Oh my .., you must be right, this is pointless!

.. no wait ..

What if the simulator can be divided into a backend and frontend? (hmm.. where have I heard these expressions before ?)
- Backend would be an existing high-end emulator
- And the frontend would be the simulation part
- Integrate the parts seamlessly and there you have it : BREADBOX is here!

Did you get it? well anyway, that is the formula what makes this feasible to do.
But well, there's a s*** load of work still to do ;)

"What emulator(s) are integrated to BREADBOX"

Breadbox is using VICE to emulate running C64 and PET-2001.


"Where can I get the Breadbox?"

Sorry to disappoint, but it's not yet ready to be published. And it's too early to speculate dates, but maybe something comes out this year.


-------------------------------

Feel free to ask more questions, I may give answer to some :)
And we also appreciate any feedback that comes to your mind.

Here are the links to videos that present some features of Breadbox in its current state.

Breadbox - Teaser
https://youtu.be/qjK4tF2eJew

Breadbox - Press Play On Tape
https://youtu.be/GaC3H5KiL3U

About the videos.. there are still some obvious differences to real world (no cables, some leds not working right, bad 3D-models, no logos, etc). Like said, this is in development, the videos will only show the current state, not the finished product.


ps. Many thanks and HUGE respect to all people contributed to VICE!
Last edited by Bitfall on Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Juan
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Post by Juan »

Nice videos! :thumbsup:

Waiting to see more about your project.
Bitfall
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Post by Bitfall »

Oh sorry, some problems with the previous YouTube links.. maybe these are more accessable?

Breadbox - Teaser
https://youtu.be/qjK4tF2eJew

Breadbox - Press Play On Tape
https://youtu.be/GaC3H5KiL3U
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ricky006
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Post by ricky006 »

Now that's what i call Interactive , Very Nice :)
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willasm
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Post by willasm »

Very impressive looking. Looking forward to seeing more. :thumbsup:
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OneCheekyDevil
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Post by OneCheekyDevil »

Like WOW!!!

Any chance of adding VR goggles to this project? :D
Bitfall
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Post by Bitfall »

Hey, thanks for positive feedback! :)
Any chance of adding VR goggles to this project?
It sure is one feature that can be added and we definitely would want to add.
But it's not going to be in first releases thou.
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Post by Bitfall »

Update: joystick attachment/detachment with animations

Breadbox - Plug And Play
https://youtu.be/o0Ff9LO_YbA
bootles
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Post by bootles »

Looks neato. What C64 emulator does it use on the backend and what type of graphics card will be required to run this? I have a pretty old one. :(
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Post by Bitfall »

bootles wrote:Looks neato. What C64 emulator does it use on the backend and what type of graphics card will be required to run this? I have a pretty old one. :(
Good questions.

Emulator(s)

Currently Breadbox is integrated with VICE.
But ultimate goal is to include also other models than Commodore. Which goes beyond one emulator.

Graphics card and about machine specs in general

It's quite hard to give exact answers to that. There is still lot of things that will change, which all can affect the performance. But, there are also tons of ways to optimize and graphics quality can always be dropped for lower end models. But we haven't really started on this issue yet, so I have very positive expectations on this.

What I can say for sure, that you will not need latest high-end gaming PC for this.
Here's a specs of two test machines in use and they run very well, so I think you can expect it run with less.

Desktop
- RAM 8GB
- CPU Intel i5 760 @ 2.80GHz
- GPU: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1060 3GB @ 1920x1080

Laptop
- RAM 32GB
- CPU: Intel i7-8550U @ 1.80GHz
- GPU: NVIDIA GeForce MTX150 @ 1920x1080


Disappointing fact for some, is that the first release(s) will only run on Win 10.
Bitfall
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Progress update

Post by Bitfall »

Made better layout for PET-2001 and added 4040 disk drive.

Video: Breadbox - Playing with PET 2001-8 simulator
https://youtu.be/wze7B4xcTUc
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Post by MeneerJansen »

At first I thought: "Noooooo! Not yet another emulator". But then I saw the video. Hard to explain what the difference is between an emulator and a simulator. This indeed IS nice! I always have trouble understanding what all the settings in an emulator are for if I've never seen the original. This solves all that!

Good luck in developing! :)
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StatMat
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Post by StatMat »

Very, very cool! Nice work and good luck with project. :)
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Post by youxia »

MeneerJansen wrote:At first I thought: "Noooooo! Not yet another emulator"
I had a very similar reaction, or perhaps even worse, thinking about some convoluted FPGA argument/hybrid. The video was a great surprise and now I'm also a convert :)

I see this primarily as an awesome educational tool, to show people who don't have an access to the real machines how it was working and playing with them.
And could work for firing an occasional game too, why not, and if you integrate it fully with a given emulator, perhaps even a replacement.

Good luck, and hope you'll expand this project to the other machines eventually (ZX & Amiga plz :) I actually use Retro Virtual Machine occasionally, it's got some similarities in its approach.
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Post by Bitfall »

Hey, I like your comments here!

I knew from the start that hardest part is to describe what this product is about. Hence the videos, which tell things most efficiently.

But even with videos it is not that easy to convince people. The videos are only kind of 'boring and contoversial - middle of the development' product videos of a product that you cannot get anywhere yet.

What comes to machines in the Breadbox, the vision indeed is perhaps bigger than many are ready to imagine. I believe that if even a part of that can be achieved with good quality and usability this is a hit. Tricky part is how to get there!

-------------------

Official announcement regarding the first release:
It will contain 3 models: PET 2001-8, VIC-20 and C-64.


ps I will love to implement sooo.. many more models, including the mentioned ZX's and Amiga. Some models will come sooner, but some will have bigger issues regarding to copyrights or something else. But what are issues? Only problems waiting to be solved! :D
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